Arev to OI Screen Generation (OpenInsight Specific) [Revelation On-Line Wiki]

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==== Arev to OI Screen Generation (OpenInsight Specific) ====
=== At 10 JAN 2000 11:32:49AM Ray Chan wrote: ===
 
{{tag>"OpenInsight Specific"}}
 
<QUOTE>
I wonder if anyone has a 'sample'/'freeware' etc process to read Arev Window Templates and generate a 'similar' window in OI.



I am not looking for a complete mega app copy routine.  The windows paradigm doesn't work that way BUT in looking at the Arev window template and the OI template it seems that it should be somewhat compatible for basic layout.



Any help would be appreciated ..



Thanks
</QUOTE>
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=== At 10 JAN 2000 11:44AM [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" onMouseOver=window.status=Click here to visit our web site?';return(true)]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Revelation Software used to have such a beast in the betas of OI so if someone has beta disks they might be able to share them - although of course I am unsure as to the licensing implications of this.



We did create a VERY functional equivalent which did an awful lot of the work but unfortunately the client who paid thousands for it would not look favourably upon our making it freeware/shareware - sorry.



[url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" ]The Sprezzatura Group[/url]

[i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i]

[img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img]





</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 01:09PM Ray Chan wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Dear Mr. 'The Sprezzatura Group'



Although I don't quite understand why someone wouldn't want to give me a tool they paid thousands for (regardless what others say I really am a pretty nice fellow .. and not the prince of darkness) I guess I will just have to bow to their feelings.



Anyone know of this 'beta' product?  Why didn't rti include such a beast to help the moving of Arev to OI?



</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 01:11PM Ray Chan wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Dear 'msg' (typing you name is wearing out my fingers)



I noted that you said 'very' functional .. would you have a 'not very' function version  available?

</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 01:18PM [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" onMouseOver=window.status=Click here to visit our web site?';return(true)]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Sorry I'm allergic to MSG...



Let us see what we can hack together - try for the weekend - we're a bit busy here, just putting the finishing touches to another web site for an American Client. Functionality their parent paid ] $1,000,000 for, for less than $50,000! Way cool! AREV to the Web seems to be the hot thing at the moment.



PS Thank you for your kind words about SLIST.



[url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" ]The Sprezzatura Group[/url]

[i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i]

[img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img]







</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 02:41PM Kurt Baker wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>When OpenInsight was first released, we introduced the concept of "Porting Labs" where Revelation developers could visit Revelation and work with our support and development team to assist them with the migration process.  One tool we planned on introducing was a tool to convert Arev windows to OpenInsight forms.  To our suprise, the customers who came in - threw the tool out immediately.  Why?  Well, I think the migration of a form is two separate things - the migration of the GUI and the migration of the LOGIC.



Migration of the GUI

The value here is that you don't want to take a lot of time "redrawing" a form.  The customers didn't find value in the migration tool for a couple of reasons.

1. In moving to windows they wanted to re-evaluate the look of the forms

2. At the time, using 'virtual space' wasn't allowed by the Windows spec (Microsoft later broke it).  So the big screens (where you would save the most time) had to be broken up .



We found the customers prefered using the "QuickForm "function. It saved time and allowed them to address the two issues above.



Migration of the Logic

At first everyone thought that doing the work of moving rbasic code from pre and post prompt process to the equivalent windows events would be benficial - but it wasn't.  First of all, the shift between the procedural vs event oriented coding is significant; and you can't directly "map" these functions across. Second, all the code must be analyzed for Arev.common and other syntax.  What we did was cut and paste code from the original program to keep save the business logic, but implement it in a new way.



Granted, I am not saying there is no value in such a tool - but we found in the porting labs that the tool had much less value that we expected - we found the value is not in screen scraping Arev but implementing the Arev business logic in a new way.   



FWIW,



Kurt

</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 02:52PM [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" onMouseOver=window.status=Click here to visit our web site?';return(true)]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>and FWIW I totally agree - like an app we took over the other day had the same sub-set of prompts on every screen (date updated, user creating etc etc) - it made far more sense to move these and the button bar on each window into the MDI frame thus resulting in a much cleaner appearance, much less resource use, improved performance etc etc.



When redoing an AREV app to OI, starting design from scratch using Quick Paint is frequently quicker and normally better than screen scrapes.





[url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" ]The Sprezzatura Group[/url]

[i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i]

[img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img]





</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 03:07PM Ray Chan wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>At least it gives us consultants something to charge for 



</QUOTE>

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=== At 10 JAN 2000 09:07PM Ray Chan wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Boy I wish we could extend the life of our AREV app. But when people are asking for Windoze ... we must give them windoze. Don't we??



But if our app ran on the Web, ... how in the world would it look. Gee, at this moment I wondering what would be less painful. Converting our app to OI or to ... something else (Arev on the Web??)



As you understand, $$$ is always a consideration with us.



Thanks.



</QUOTE>

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=== At 11 JAN 2000 04:20AM [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" onMouseOver=window.status=Click here to visit our web site?';return(true)]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>If your application suits it, it is easier to go AREV to the Web than AREV to OI to the Web. This way your client gets a 32 bit front end and you don't have to struggle with out-dated 16 bit technology - at least on the front end. There are compromises that need to be made, but as long as they are acceptable to all parties you can generally develop quicker this way.



This is now our preferred M.O. in a greenfield situation as long as a browser client is acceptable. Many factors affect this decision and there are disadvantages as well as advantages. This, regretfully, is a consulting exercise as too many factors need to be weighed.





[url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" ]The Sprezzatura Group[/url]

[i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i]

[img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img]





</QUOTE>

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=== At 11 JAN 2000 09:28AM Kurt Baker wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>Ray,



If you are interested in an example of what an Arev/OI application looks like on the web; one place you should check out is:



http://www.revelation.com/oiweb.html



This is an example web site that I demo'd in my last roadshow; there is even a component that was built using jRev (see if you can find it). There is a description of the site and the source code is available by going here:



http://www.revelation.com/WEBSITE/SOFTWARE.NSF/06fb58066b4ed717852564030070163e/5c709100087414658525683100660fe1?OpenDocument



Kurt

</QUOTE>

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=== At 11 JAN 2000 09:54AM dsig@teleport.com wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>IF the question was dealing with copying an application from AREV to OI I also would agree.  But after 10 years of honing the screens in look it should be possible to build the same visual context in OI as in Arev.  Processing is another matter.  This may require a rething .. although much processing is similar (although syntax may be different).  You have a validation, (or you could use lostfocus).  You have read events and write events.  These could be brought across with little change (except syntax AND knowledge of the event chain).



As for the 'event driven' verses 'arev linear' processing .. in fact you do not let a user leave a screen until certain things have been completed.  Since there is a tab order the user must follow that tab order (yes you can click to another control if allowed) and must enter all data required for that control.  For example .. a databound window does not let you leave the key field until the key is entered.



So having a screen scrapper is not without merit.



dsig@teleport.com onmouseover=window.status=imagine ... opinions that seem to scare;return(true)"

David Tod Sigafoos ~ SigSolutions

dsig@teleport.com

</QUOTE>

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=== At 11 JAN 2000 10:32AM [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" onMouseOver=window.status=Click here to visit our web site?';return(true)]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] wrote:  ===

<QUOTE>I was speaking personal preference ... 





[url=http://www.sprezzatura.com" ]The Sprezzatura Group[/url]

[i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i]

[img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img]





</QUOTE>


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