[[https://www.revelation.com/|Sign up on the Revelation Software website to have access to the most current content, and to be able to ask questions and get answers from the Revelation community]] ==== Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 (AREV Specific) ==== === At 05 APR 2005 07:04:23PM David Craig wrote: === {{tag>"AREV Specific"}} Our IT department applied XP Service pack 2 (in spite of my warnings) to my workstation. Now, when I open Arev it refuses to start the application. I've tried putting Arev in the firewall as an exception, Cmd.exe and Forcedos.exe as an exception and turning the firewall off completely (we are behind a real firewall, after all) but no luck. The application is started with the command line, along with the necessary memory settings: forcedos Arev cliosys /x /m4096 Anyone else have XP Pro SP2 and run into this problem? This means we can't have our users upgrade until it's solved. For me it's no big deal to start the application since I don't use it that much, but that's not acceptable for users. It's worked fine from MS-DOS, 3.1, 95, 98, not with Me, NT, W2K and XP up to service pack 1. Any information is welcome; David Craig. ---- === At 05 APR 2005 07:47PM David Craig wrote: === A bit more information, after thinking about it I wondered if Arev were getting the expanded memory allocation through the parameter so I checked 'who' and expanded memory is active but it reports 2 megs where it should be getting 4. David Craig. ---- === At 06 APR 2005 02:32AM Warren Auyong wrote: === Is the PIF for your ARev shortcut set for 4096 of EMS? Check the _DEFAULT.PIF settings too. ---- === At 06 APR 2005 02:37AM Warren Auyong wrote: === Since you can do a "WHO" at TCL it must mean that ARev will start, just not the application. Are the paths and/or network drives mapped correctly? And does the workstation login have proper access rights to these? ---- === At 06 APR 2005 07:40AM Jim Eagan wrote: === I get a similar result although my app runs fine. SP1 - no problem. SP2 - reports 1 meg allocated when it should be 4. ---- === At 06 APR 2005 07:49AM support@sprezzatura.com wrote: === SP2 4 MB - no problems. support@sprezzatura.com The Sprezzatura Group Web Site [i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i] [img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img] ---- === At 06 APR 2005 01:07PM David Craig wrote: === First thanks for your replies: permissions should not be an issue. Arev starts and I can then start the application through the menu + for our users with W2K workstations it's working fine. Oh, and I have admin rights on both my workstation and the server so I think that's not it. The server is W2K and the PIF for Arev.exe on the server is set for 4 megs of expanded memory, I hadn't thought to look at that so thanks. Jim I certainly hope that your app runs fine with only 1 meg - I think we will get some other opinions on this - but our app has had problems in the past running out of memory and spitting users out, alhtough this may have been when the client was not getting expanded memory at all. I *think* there is a problem with not enough memory although I've been through so many issues over the years I can't be sure. We do have some popups with large selected datasets and some really hairy window driver programs (RBasic programs that run behind our data entry windows) that may be more memory consumptive than other environments. Another thing that may be different from other environments is that the shortcut on our desktops points to a batch file on the server. As I said, this has been working fine for about 5 years since I set it up for the migration to W2K 4 or 5 years ago, and it still does for W2K clients or XP below SP2. I forgot to put in my intial post: we're running Arev 3.12, the W2k Service, W2K servers kept up to the latest service pack, just one XP client and it may stay that way. Thanks again, David Craig. ---- === At 06 APR 2005 03:19PM David Craig wrote: === I missed one of Warren's suggestions, just checked the properties of _default pif on my workstation and changed it to auto/auto/4096/none/auto. No change. Sprez thanks for letting me know it can work, do you have it calling a batch file on the server as we do or is it setup differently and if so could you let me know how? Did you wipe the hard drive and install SP2 on a clean install of XP? One of the other developers here said that was the way to go, but that's a bit of work that I'd just as soon avoid if possible. If it's a replacement OS, why is it called a service pack? Wrong forum, but it's a valid question. David Craig. ---- === At 07 APR 2005 01:51AM Warren Auyong wrote: === What does MEM report when run from the CMD prompt? ---- === At 07 APR 2005 09:21AM Hippo wrote: === We have 4MB in both cases ... pif calls local bat/pif calls bat on server (using WXP SP2, 3.12 but UD). ---- === At 07 APR 2005 09:21AM Hippo wrote: === We have 4MB in both cases ... pif calls local bat/pif calls bat on server (using WXP SP2, 3.12 but UD). ---- === At 07 APR 2005 09:21AM Hippo wrote: === We have 4MB in both cases ... pif calls local bat/pif calls bat on server (using WXP SP2, 3.12 but UD). ---- === At 07 APR 2005 09:31AM Hippo wrote: === Hmm it seem that my new WinXP SP2 ... sends posts trice ... sorry about that. ---- === At 07 APR 2005 09:31AM Hippo wrote: === Hmm it seem that my new WinXP SP2 ... sends posts trice ... sorry about that. ---- === At 07 APR 2005 09:31AM Hippo wrote: === Hmm it seem that my new WinXP SP2 ... sends posts trice ... sorry about that. ---- === At 07 APR 2005 11:37AM support@sprezzatura.com wrote: === Erm actually no - it was just a standard upgrade, though to be fair I uninstalled it once then reinstalled it as the first install seemed to create some problems... Herewith my mem /c on a SUSPEND from AREV Conventional Memory : Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex ------------- --------------------- ------------- MSDOS 12128 ( 11.8K) 2F60 KBD 3296 ( 3.2K) CE0 EMM 176 ( 0.2K) B0 HIMEM 1248 ( 1.2K) 4E0 MOUSE 12528 ( 12.2K) 30F0 COMMAND 3840 ( 3.8K) F00 AREV 7344 ( 7.2K) 1CB0 MSCDEXNT 464 ( 0.5K) 1D0 REDIR 2672 ( 2.6K) A70 DOSX 34848 ( 34.0K) 8820 KB16 6096 ( 6.0K) 17D0 COMMAND 4512 ( 4.4K) 11A0 FREE 112 ( 0.1K) 70 FREE 592 ( 0.6K) 250 FREE 565072 (551.8K) 89F50 Total FREE : 565776 (552.5K) Total bytes available to programs : 565776 (552.5K) Largest executable program size : 564080 (550.9K) 4194304 bytes total EMS memory 0 bytes free EMS memory 5242880 bytes total contiguous extended memory 0 bytes available contiguous extended memory 941056 bytes available XMS memory MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area support@sprezzatura.com The Sprezzatura Group Web Site [i]World Leaders in all things RevSoft[/i] [img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img] ---- === At 11 APR 2005 12:15PM David Craig wrote: === I was out part of Thursday and Friday, even developers get to take a day off once in a while. I tried moving the batch file to the workstation but it made no difference. Three thanks to Hippo for that idea. Here is mem /c from suspend in Arev on my workstation; Conventional Memory : Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex ------------- --------------------- ------------- MSDOS 11968 ( 11.7K) 2EC0 KBD 3296 ( 3.2K) CE0 EMM 176 ( 0.2K) B0 HIMEM 1248 ( 1.2K) 4E0 MOUSE 12528 ( 12.2K) 30F0 COMMAND 3936 ( 3.8K) F60 REDIR 2672 ( 2.6K) A70 DOSX 34720 ( 33.9K) 87A0 AREV 7248 ( 7.1K) 1C50 COMMAND 4848 ( 4.7K) 12F0 FREE 112 ( 0.1K) 70 FREE 572288 (558.9K) 8BB80 Total FREE : 572400 (559.0K) Upper Memory : Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex ------------- --------------------- ------------- SYSTEM 258032 (252.0K) 3EFF0 DOSX 128 ( 0.1K) 80 MSCDEXNT 464 ( 0.5K) 1D0 FREE 1120 ( 1.1K) 460 FREE 2320 ( 2.3K) 910 Total FREE : 3440 ( 3.4K) Total bytes available to programs (Conventional+Upper) : 575840 (562.3K) Largest executable program size : 571136 (557.8K) Largest available upper memory block : 2320 ( 2.3K) 4194304 bytes total EMS memory 2097152 bytes free EMS memory 5242880 bytes total contiguous extended memory 0 bytes available contiguous extended memory 941056 bytes available XMS memory MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area ---- === At 11 APR 2005 04:43PM Warren Auyong wrote: === What does the "WHO" in ARev show for the EMS Memory Regions? ---- === At 11 APR 2005 06:59PM David Craig wrote: === Copied from who; EXPANDED MEMORY INFORMATION Expanded Memory Statistics EM Used = 319,488 EM Allocated = 2,097,152 Memory Region Segment Address 16K EM Window = DB00 (876K) 64K Overflow Buffer 1 = CB00 (812K) 64K Overflow Buffer 2 = 2503 (148K) ---- === At 11 APR 2005 10:18PM Warren Auyong wrote: === What does MEM /D show from suspend and from Start -] run -] cmd (or command)? I'm thinking some other program or driver is loaded after where the EMS buffers are getting allocated thus reducing the amount of EMS available for ARev. ---- === At 12 APR 2005 03:03AM [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] wrote: === David Are you running Arev.exe with the "M" switch set? /M4096 [url=http://www.sprezzatura.com]The Sprezzatura Group[/url] [i]World leaders in all things RevSoft[/i] [img]http://www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif[/img] ---- === At 12 APR 2005 11:47AM Hippo wrote: === In initial post David wrote: forcedos Arev cliosys /x /m4096 P.S.:... sorry for sending 4times thrice ... I'v tested another comp with SP2, third comp with SP1 ... it must be a firewall issue:( (Now I am not in the office so hope for a single one.) ---- === At 12 APR 2005 11:58AM Hippo wrote: === I agree with Warren ... I cannot explain: 4194304 bytes total EMS memory 2097152 bytes free EMS memory other way then other programs invoked from the .pif consumed half the EMS memory. (Otherwise there is something wired with EMS implementation ... :-( ) ---- === At 12 APR 2005 06:31PM David Craig wrote: === Warren: I did mem /d once from cmd with nothing running and once from within arev/suspend. mem /d with nothing else running returns: Address Name Size Type ------- -------- ------ ------ 000000 000400 Interrupt Vector 000400 000100 ROM Communication Area 000500 000200 DOS Communication Area 000700 IO 000370 System Data CON System Device Driver AUX System Device Driver PRN System Device Driver CLOCK$ System Device Driver COM1 System Device Driver LPT1 System Device Driver LPT2 System Device Driver LPT3 System Device Driver COM2 System Device Driver COM3 System Device Driver COM4 System Device Driver 000A70 MSDOS 001630 System Data 0020A0 IO 0051F0 System Data KBD 000CE0 System Program EMM 0000B0 DEVICE= EMMXXXX0 Installed Device Driver HIMEM 0004E0 DEVICE= XMSXXXX0 Installed Device Driver MOUSE 0030F0 System Program 000490 FILES= 000090 FCBS= 000120 LASTDRIVE= 0007D0 STACKS= 0072A0 COMMAND 000A20 Program 007CD0 MSDOS 000070 -- Free -- 007D50 COMMAND 000540 Environment 0082A0 REDIR 000A70 Program 008D20 DOSX 0087A0 Program 0114D0 MEM 000470 Environment 011950 MEM 0174E0 Program 028E40 MSDOS 0771A0 -- Free -- 09FFF0 SYSTEM 03F000 System Program 0DF000 MSDOS 000460 -- Free -- 0DF470 MSCDEXNT 0001D0 Program 0DF650 DOSX 000080 Data 0DF6E0 MSDOS 000910 -- Free -- 655360 bytes total conventional memory 655360 bytes available to MS-DOS 583312 largest executable program size Handle EMS Name Size ------- -------- ------ 0 000000 4194304 bytes total EMS memory 4194304 bytes free EMS memory 5242880 bytes total contiguous extended memory 0 bytes available contiguous extended memory 941056 bytes available XMS memory MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area mem /d from arev/suspend returns: Address Name Size Type ------- -------- ------ ------ 000000 000400 Interrupt Vector 000400 000100 ROM Communication Area 000500 000200 DOS Communication Area 000700 IO 000370 System Data CON System Device Driver AUX System Device Driver PRN System Device Driver CLOCK$ System Device Driver COM1 System Device Driver LPT1 System Device Driver LPT2 System Device Driver LPT3 System Device Driver COM2 System Device Driver COM3 System Device Driver COM4 System Device Driver 000A70 MSDOS 001630 System Data 0020A0 IO 0051F0 System Data KBD 000CE0 System Program EMM 0000B0 DEVICE= EMMXXXX0 Installed Device Driver HIMEM 0004E0 DEVICE= XMSXXXX0 Installed Device Driver MOUSE 0030F0 System Program 000490 FILES= 000090 FCBS= 000120 LASTDRIVE= 0007D0 STACKS= 0072A0 COMMAND 000A20 Program 007CD0 MSDOS 000070 -- Free -- 007D50 COMMAND 000540 Environment 0082A0 REDIR 000A70 Program 008D20 DOSX 0087A0 Program 0114D0 AREV 000470 Environment 011950 AREV 0017E0 Program 013140 COMMAND 000480 Data 0135D0 COMMAND 000A20 Program 014000 COMMAND 000460 Environment 014470 MEM 000470 Environment 0148F0 MEM 0174E0 Program 02BDE0 MSDOS 074200 -- Free -- 09FFF0 SYSTEM 03F000 System Program 0DF000 MSDOS 000460 -- Free -- 0DF470 MSCDEXNT 0001D0 Program 0DF650 DOSX 000080 Data 0DF6E0 MSDOS 000910 -- Free -- 655360 bytes total conventional memory 655360 bytes available to MS-DOS 571120 largest executable program size Handle EMS Name Size ------- -------- ------ 0 000000 1 010000 2 1F0000 4194304 bytes total EMS memory 2097152 bytes free EMS memory 5242880 bytes total contiguous extended memory 0 bytes available contiguous extended memory 941056 bytes available XMS memory MS-DOS resident in High Memory Area ---- === At 12 APR 2005 07:48PM Jim Eagan wrote: === OOPS, I looked at my short cut and found that on the computer I was using (non-dev but with Internet access) it was a ".lnk" not a ".pif". When I made the change - all good. ---- === At 12 APR 2005 07:57PM Warren Auyong wrote: === Great. I'll have to try to digest this info. Not used to thinking memory addressing in hex. Where's our low level gurus like Pat McNerthy or Steve Smith or Carl Pates? In the meantime, try disabling XMS (extended memory) on the shortcut/pif. I was reading on the WPDOS site that sometimes this can cause a problem. ---- === At 13 APR 2005 06:33PM David Craig wrote: === I tried creating a shortcut to Arev.exe and putting the parameters in the 'cmd line'. No difference, it appears that the exe is not getting the parameters, since neither is making any difference. The shortcut does have the correct memory settings, probably from _default.pif. I'm starting to think it's just something with this upgrade to SP2, and that the fix is to wipe the hard drive and start over with XP SP2 and go from there. In my spare time, of course. David Craig ---- === At 13 APR 2005 07:37PM Warren Auyong wrote: === Is there an AREV.PIF in the same directory as the AREV.EXE? This might take precedence over shortcut settings. ---- === At 14 APR 2005 12:22PM David Craig wrote: === Indeed there was, I tried putting the parameters in that shortcut, the memory settings were already correct. Still the application does not start and who shows 2 megs. I tried moving the shortcut out of that directory and renaming it, still no change. I heard back from IT and their reply was that XP does not support expanded memory. I found some documentation that supports that, even though 'mem' shows that my machine has and uses it. I guess the next thing is for me to find a clean XP SP2 machine and see if it works correctly there. I probably won't be able to get to that for a while so I'll have to live with it for now. Thanks everybody for trying to help, David Craig. ---- === At 14 APR 2005 01:55PM dsig _at_ sigafoos.org wrote: === David .. I believe the problem comes up with the drivers used by the machine makers for video .. My toshiba laptop running xp worked fine. Then I got a HP laptop and the expanded memory went away. Even though settings all showed it to be there .. Arev could not find it. Newer machines seem to almost all use this area for video .. remember DOS is dead .. Arev is dead .. that is why OI isn't Arev for windows dsig _at_ sigafoos.org.com onmouseover=window.status=the new revelation technology .. a refreshing change;return(true)" David Tod Sigafoos ~ SigSolutions ---- === At 15 APR 2005 02:21AM Barry Stevens wrote: === ]]XP does not support expanded memory XP Spack 2 does support Expanded memory. It is all to do with board manufactures and/or the USB ports. I trawled thru most of responses and appears you have expanded memory, so not an issue. Your shortcut settings should be: PROGRAM: Cmd Line: AREV.EXE CLIOSYS /XM4096 Working Directory: Shortcut key: none run: normal window MEMORY conventional memory: Total: AUTO Initial Environ: AUTO Expanded EMS: 4096 Extended XMS NONE Uses HMA DOS protect mode: Total: AUTO COMPATIBILTY Create a brand new shortcut on the desktop using these parameters. ---- === At 17 APR 2005 12:07PM Warren Auyong wrote: === http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/emsxp.html ---- === At 17 APR 2005 12:08PM Warren Auyong wrote: === This may be of some use to you: http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/windowsxp.html#xpwarning ---- === At 19 APR 2005 12:11PM David Craig wrote: === That worked! The only difference between your suggestion and what I'd tried was the command line, I should have spotted that the /Cliosys was not correct although I thought I'd tried most possible permutations. Not sure if it's forcedos or what that's caused the batch file to not work, but if we do move our users to XPSP2 now; I know it can work and if there are problems I know to try and free up Expanded memory and have some references on how to pursue that. Thanks again everybody, this forum is a great resource. David Craig. [[https://www.revelation.com/revweb/oecgi4p.php/O4W_HANDOFF?DESTN=O4W_RUN_FORM&INQID=NONWORKS_READ&SUMMARY=1&KEY=59D7A31D86E165B785256FDA007EBEB3|View this thread on the forum...]]