Forgive me if I am posting this to the wrong board. I'll make this brief.

I was just contracted by a company to take over tech support for their 19 locations. The type of business they are is irrelevant; however, they use an old piece of DOS software to manage their clients and payments. The company that made the software is no longer in business, but through hacking on it I discovered that it was written on top of a revelation software data system. I'm not even sure which one.

My predecessor, who passed away suddenly, left little to no documentation about this software and I have no installation disks. I've already run into a few things that the discussion boards here have helped me with and I thank you!

Now for the most recent question: how would one go about the erasing all the data in the system without destroying the data structure. I basically have a new location I need to bring online. I can copy the software from a currently working facility, but I need to delete the data from that facility and make it ready to receive fresh data. Any takers? Any insight?

Thank you in advance.

OK establishing which one is simple. Firstly look at the files in the DOS subdirectory. If they are .LNK or .000 .010 .020 etc then you are using Revelation C through to Revelation G. This is UNLIKELY - we only have one active client using Revelation G as it was discontinued around 1989. If the files are .LK or .OV then you are using Advanced Revelation. This could be any version from 1.0 to 3.12 - 3.12 was discontinued around 1995.

This isn't really a nightmare - Revelation systems are typically robust and require little maintenance. The task you have ahead of you is basically one that your predecessor likely had an automated routine to deal with. If he did not then basically you'll want to construct a batch command (we'd call it a VOC entry) to CLEARFILE all of the data files.

One thing to point out is that duplicating a system in this way will require the purchase of more Revelation licenses. Each REV.EXE or AREV.EXE is licensed separately and you just can't copy them round to create new systems unless you have an unlimited runtime copy.

In your position we'd recommend getting in someone to "show you the ropes" but it may be the client has no budget for this.

url=http://www.sprezzatura.comThe Sprezzatura Group/url

url=http://www.sprezzatura.com/blogThe Sprezzatura Blog/url

iWorld leaders in all things RevSoft/i

imghttp:www.sprezzatura.com/zz.gif/img </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 01:48PM Tom E Manners wrote: === <QUOTE>Thank you so much for your response!! Believe it or not they actually are .LNK files! The 1st edition of this software was actually written in 1985 And was for managing self storage properties. I had no idea it was based upon revelation software other than I deleted some key files and in doing so revealed a revelation software tagline. That's when I found your website. Other than that there is nothing in the software that indicates that it is yours. And the company wrote the software, I don't think had in mind that that would ever be revealed to the end-user. Even the user interface to the command lines that I have found in the discussion boards is not standard to what is described. But they do work in a very limited fashion it seems. The software, which I will call MSP, was purchased as a general site license cover all locations. At least that's what I've been able to discern from the history had been able to glean. So I don't believe I'm in violation of anything from revelation I hope! You are absolutely right! The client has no budget nor desire for someone to " show me the ropes”. I'm flying completely blind. Is there anyway you can describe to me how to construct the batch command to clear file all the data files? The next question I should probably ask is that there is there still documentation for using Revelation C through Revelation G? thank you for your prompt response. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it. </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 02:23PM The Sprezzatura Group wrote: === <QUOTE>OK bad news. I don't recall Rev G having a site license so there is possibly a license breach scenario here. Until that is clarified it would be unwise of us to advise you on how to achieve your ends - sorry. Revelation is normally used to write third party apps so it is not unusual that Rev's part in this is hidden! Is the executable called rev.exe? If so just opening a command prompt and typing REV and pressing return should display a licensing screen that tells you how many uses the software is for and a version number. Alternatively try REV SYSPROG and if there is no password you might get to what we call TCL. The command line or terminal control level. type in WHO and return and it may give you more info. If there is not REV.EXE look for an EXE of around 75K - it might have been renamed. If each site has the same serial number then you've just opened a whole new can of worms. I believe that Rev's license allows them to conduct on site audits to ensure license compliance so it might be wise to ensure your client's position is regularised. It is likely that Rev still have documentation for Rev G - I know we have it in the office but it's copyrighted so we can't help out there! There is little discussion of Rev G on these fora - unsurprising given it has been out of production for over 2 decades ;). Feel free to mail us directly for guidance on ensuring you're in licensing compliance. info@sprezzatura.com The Sprezzatura Group The Sprezzatura Blog World leaders in all things RevSoft </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 02:52PM Mike Ruane wrote: === <QUOTE>Tom- Can you take a copy of the Rev.exe file and email it to me, remaning it rev_exe? I'm on a one-hour difference time zone from you, but we should be able to tell you something of the pedigree of this system. Thanks- Mike Ruane Revelation Software </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 03:34PM Tom E Manners wrote: === <QUOTE>Mike, I would be glad to! How do I get your email address? Tom </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 03:36PM Mike Ruane wrote: === <QUOTE>Tom- Sorry - mike@revelation.com Mike </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 03:39PM Tom E Manners wrote: === <QUOTE>So, my client purchases the software off the shelf. The software, with the full knowledge of the software writers, is installed in 19 different locations. In fact they helped us do it. That company goes belly up leaving us with no support whatsoever. I stumble into this discussion forum because I happen to discover that the software writers used REV. only to discover that software purchase almost 15 to 20 years ago maybe out of license compliance? Nothing like the blind side to really make you have a great day! </QUOTE> —- === At 20 SEP 2011 03:59PM The Sprezzatura Group wrote: === <QUOTE>It sucks I agree. We used to see a LOT more of this back in the day. Rev have historically pursued a razor/razor blade licensing strategy. Provide the razors cheaply and charge for the blades. That way in theory the Software Vendor only has to pay Rev when they're being paid themselves. At this stage there is nothing to say that the original vendor wasn't buying legitimate licenses and shelfwaring them. This was a technique used by a number of vendors who didn't want to write a custom install. So every time they installed a new copy of the software they'd buy a license and just file it. The whole idea of individual serial numbers was to allow the database vendor (Rev) to assure compliance. Rev will likely have copies of who bought what licenses so they should be able to establish legitimacy fairly quickly even if shelfware is involved. The original Revelation license explicitly required that the machine running the software have a numbered sticker on it and the login screen used to say "If this software is running on a machine without the sticker then contact Cosmos Inc for a $500 reward". I haven't seen that one enforced for a very long time! The Sprezzatura Group The Sprezzatura Blog World leaders in all things RevSoft </QUOTE> —- === At 22 SEP 2011 09:49AM Tom E Manners wrote: === <QUOTE>Ok, I have had an extensive email exchange with the President of Revelation and at this point doesn't believe the license compliance is an issue. So we can continue…. Can you explain how I would do a VOC to clearfile? </QUOTE> —- === At 22 SEP 2011 02:54PM The Sprezzatura Group wrote: === <QUOTE>OK having checked it would seem that your employer would have to come into compliance and I am sure that this is something that you will be addressing with them? To create the VOC entry you need to either use the line editor (EDIT) or the text editor (TEXT) to create a new entry in VOC - so for example EDIT VOC DEPLOY This will say "New record" and you would then use the editor commands (try ? or HELP) to insert TCL CLEARFILE FILENAME1 CLEARFILE FILENAME2 etc then file the row. Typing DEPLOY at TCL will now execute these commands one at a time. Of course you first need to understand which files are the data files and are therefore appropriate to include in the batch. You also need to identify if indexes are being used by the application in which case you will have to rebuild them as blank once you have the deployable copy. Suffice to say that without knowledge of the toolset and underlying software architecture you have actually just inherited a nightmare - apologies for minimising it earlier. This is software from back in the day when people were happy to learn command line options etc. Rev G remains blisteringly fast and powerful but unlike OpenInsight (the Windows version) which could be compared to an automatic car, Rev G is more like an early model MG without synchromesh and requiring double declutching. The Sprezzatura Group The Sprezzatura Blog World leaders in all things RevSoft </QUOTE> —- === At 22 SEP 2011 03:51PM Tom E Manners wrote: === <QUOTE>can I contract you to do this since I have no idea what I am doing at this point? </QUOTE> —- === At 22 SEP 2011 05:55PM The Sprezzatura Group wrote: === <QUOTE>Of course - we can do it remotely to show you how to do it. However soliciting is not allowed on this forum so if you'd like to email us we can take it off board. We remain convinced that the routine should already exist so the first step is to look for it. You could try the following at TCL LIST VOC WITH ALL 'CLEARFILE' if it objects that ALL is not a valid dictionary item try F2 of F3. If a likely looking candidate appears type TEXT VOC nameOfRow (in caps) to see what it does. support@sprezzatura.com The Sprezzatura Group The Sprezzatura Blog World leaders in all things RevSoft </QUOTE> —- === At 22 SEP 2011 06:20PM Eric wrote: === <QUOTE>"soliciting is not allowed on this forum" Really? Should I tell my sister? </QUOTE> —- === At 22 SEP 2011 06:50PM The Sprezzatura Group wrote: === <QUOTE>Never on Sunday... The Sprezzatura Group The Sprezzatura Blog World leaders in all things RevSoft </QUOTE> —- === At 23 SEP 2011 10:54AM Tom E Manners wrote: === <QUOTE>You were right. It didn't like the term 'ALL'. but when i substituted 'ALL' with 'F2' or 'F3' I got the following: Page 1 VOC………. Field 1… Field 2………….. Field 3… Field 4… ZERO Records Listed </QUOTE> —- === At 23 SEP 2011 02:30PM The Sprezzatura Group wrote: === <QUOTE>Hmm that's a shame. Perhaps he has written a program to do it. I can't believe he did it manually so many times. But then if it was done over a period of time with organic growth he might not have bothered with a custom utility. Normally I'd suggest trawling the program file for a likely piece of code but this would require creating a dictionary item called ALL witha formula of @ANS=@RECORD which would need you to launch BUD (Build Dictionary) from TCL, create the dictionary item then LIST BP WITH ALL 'CREATEFILE' (assuming that like most Rev G developers he used the BP file to store his Basic Programs. This actually isn'nt a given. In Rev programs are just data rows and can be stored in any table. The VOC pointer tells the system where to find the compiled code to execute it. The Sprezzatura Group The Sprezzatura Blog World leaders in all things RevSoft </QUOTE> —- === At 26 SEP 2011 07:27PM rwilson wrote: === <QUOTE>I just saw this thread another option from tcl PDISK C:\TEMP\FILES.TXT LISTFILES PDISK PRN then you can use notepad etc to see all of the files contained in the software. BE CAREFUL with the following again from TCL CLEAR-FILE filename (using your list from above) or you could build up a tcl stack and do them all </QUOTE> —- === At 27 SEP 2011 07:58AM rwilson wrote: === <QUOTE>Updates to my previous Message === Perhaps the manuals are in some closet or other storage area. There are two "Technical Reference" and "User's Guide". They have a black binding and are the standard size for Pc software documentation of the era 9 1/2 H x 8 1/2 L === The following are system type files and you should not CLEAR-FILE them VOC,VERBS,ERRORS,SYSOBJ,HELP,RDES,SYSTEM,QFILES,LISTS,NETWORK.DRIVERS,MD the only exception is the LISTS file which stores select lists. But some software packages used LISTS as a generic storage file === I searched the Fall 1989 Software Applications Directory and could not find anything that looked like MSP which you mention as the software name in a previous message, So I cant provide any information on the origin of the software === RDES file will contain the menus and data entry screens for the application if the developers used the built in capabilities. It is possible the application is written in RBASIC which normally would be found in files with the names ending in .BP === you might find an item in the file dictionaries named %SK% which stands for Sequential Key counter. some time used in transaction type files === correction to my earlier message about saving file names to a test file PDISK C:\TEMP\FILES.TXT (or some path of your choosing) LISTFILES (P or LISTFILES LPTR PDISK PRN (this will reset printouts to go to your default printer) === you may not want to use CLEAR-FILE on all files that are related to the software. file names like PARAM or CONTROL or CODES may contain data that helps drive edit patterns/etc === ED VOC LOGON and look for the ATTACH command. that will show you all Paths related to file storage within the application === try to maintain the same drive letter and path structure as the Pc you are using to setup a new site. It is likely that within the software that there are pointers to D:\REV_DATA\HISTORY or something path that belongs with the software and must exist. === Hope this helps Rich Wilson Rwilson@lakeside-systems.com </QUOTE> View this thread on the forum...