Whomever wrote that should be aware that most of the senior developers will probably take that as 1) a good thing to know not to install SP4 and 2) a presumptuous attitude at RTI not to be specific
Larry,
I'm a developer and I don't find this at all presumptious. I find it timely. Now as for another developer claiming to speak for me - that[/b] I would find presumptious.
amcauley@sprezzatura.com
Sprezzatura Ltd
World Leaders in all things RevSoft
</QUOTE>
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=== At 18 NOV 1998 01:53PM Capt'n Kirk wrote: ===
<QUOTE>]I'm a developer and I don't find this at all presumptious. I find it ]timely. Now as for another developer claiming to speak for me - that ]I find presumptious.
Andrew, I don't believe the statement re: senior developers applys to you. I have always thought of you as a 'master' developer.
</QUOTE>
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=== At 18 NOV 1998 02:09PM amcauley@sprezzatura.com onmouseover=window.status=why not click here to send me email?;return(true)", Sprezzatura Ltd wrote: ===
<QUOTE>I thought it was an age thing - you know, now I've got grey hairs I'm a senior developer!
amcauley@sprezzatura.com
Sprezzatura Ltd
World Leaders in all things RevSoft
</QUOTE>
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=== At 18 NOV 1998 02:53PM Cameron Revelation wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Larry et al,
I have an idea. I put it on a clients machine about a week ago, and they are now starting to get GFEs in the bang files. … Really, a more specific note would have been expected with a major announcement like that; could you please explain why the warning was without substance? What is RTI thinking when they put out something like that? … Whomever wrote that should be aware that most of the senior developers will probably take that as 1) a good thing to know not to install SP4 and 2) a presumptuous attitude at RTI not to be specific. … Please, more particulars before I start pulling SP4 from client machines.
Our information is mostly anecdotal, but these anecdotes are potent enough that we felt compelled to post a warning. We have installed NT4.0SP4 internally and have experienced random lock-ups and auto-reboots, networking problems, and unexplainable application problems, and these problems on a workstation that is not running any of our products. Customers have called complaining of new networking problems; the only thing that changed in their configurations was that they just upgraded to NT4.0SP4. Lastly, the unofficial word out of Redmond so far is not encouraging. (The original post of NT4.0SP4 was reportedly pulled within hours of being posted … no explanation. See Ken Pfeil's 10/22 post on comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.misc.)
Were we to have such information and not post at least a word of caution, we would be doing our customers a dis-service. Were we to try to spell out problems we do not yet comprehend, we would again be doing our customers a dis-service. So we chose to post a rather general statement of caution while we are testing NT4.0SP4 in house with both our client and server-based products. When we have more information, you can be sure that we will post it.
Cameron Purdy
Revelation Software
</QUOTE>
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=== At 18 NOV 1998 11:06PM Jim Vaughan wrote: ===
<QUOTE>I am using NT4 workstation with SP4 with OI 3.7.
The copy of OI is stand alone, which I use for development work only. It is running on a LAN hooked up to the Internet via DSL.
I have yet to see any problems with SP4. I have been running it since the day of release. It has been re-applied twice since then due to minor hardware changes.
However to say that we should not install SP4, is nothing short of impossible. What do I do call all our customers that use NT4 and tell them not to install SP4? When they ask why, what on earth do I tell them? What do I do with those that have already installed it?
We need to know what these incompatibilities are and if and how they effect OI. Anecdotes will not go down that well with our customers.
</QUOTE>
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=== At 19 NOV 1998 04:33AM Oystein Reigem wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Andy,
I thought it was an age thing - you know, now I've got grey hairs I'm a senior developer!
It's not age, but you're on the right track with the gray hair thing. Except you only qualify as a senior XXX developer if it's the XXX tool that gave you the gray hairs. But I cannot imagine Arev and OI giving you gray hairs, so you might not qualify.
- Oystein -
</QUOTE>
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=== At 19 NOV 1998 05:43AM Steve Smith wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Larry,
What relevance do SYSCOMM variables hold? It isn't really necessary to mention them in this context.
Steve
</QUOTE>
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=== At 19 NOV 1998 07:35AM Cameron Revelation wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Jim,
As of late last night, it appears we tracked down one of the problems. The NPP uses a file-open option called read/write share-deny-none, and NT4.0SP4 apparently treats that flag as read/write share-deny-all (at any rate, it is deny-something). On a single user system, that is not a problem. With the NPP in client/server mode (with the NT or jLH service) that is not a problem. But with NT4.0SP4 as a file server and multiple workstations running OI using the NPP driver, only the first one will be able to run OpenInsight. (It would appear that Microsoft believes everyone should buy the Revelation NT Service.)
Again, this is an early stage of our testing, so the problem may not be as clear-cut as it seems.
Cameron Purdy
Revelation Software
</QUOTE>
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=== At 23 NOV 1998 03:56AM Larry Wilson wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Andrew,
My message stated 'most', not all, so I think you would be hard pressed to determine whether I meant you when I said 'most'.
However, the point is well taken; apparently the people responding here don't really seem to need, or want very much, to know on what basis the warning was posted. I will try to keep my remarks referencing only my particular take on things.
And I find it rather presumptuous that you would automatically include yourself in my statement about 'most senior developers.' Since I didn't state 'all', you must assume that I automatically included you. In fact, I didn't. I specifically said 'most' so as to not include those who may have a relationship with RTI that would preclude an objective view; this may, or may not, include you; only you can answer that.
And, if one is going to resort to ad hominem retorts, let's keep it in private mail.
</QUOTE>
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=== At 23 NOV 1998 04:11AM Larry Wilson wrote: ===
<QUOTE>RE: NTSP4
I have had NT SP4 running on both my standalone NT server wtih AREV 3.12 and lots of other background utilities (22Gig and 128MB memory on a Pentium MX, and also at a client site running 8 Win95 terminals 6 days a week on a 350MHz NT, single processor, 128 MB memory, 4G hd mirrored, no NPP on a 100BaseT for 3 weeks with no problems except one bang file (turns out it was my problem, not the services; I had not turned off cacheing on one Win95 machine.). Since the warning, I have written stress routines for the network, creating about 10,000 transactions/hr with Btree, Xref and Relational indexing with no problems.
Has RTI tried their tests with no NPP and AREV 3.12? If so, were there problems, and if so, what types? We run a daily transaction log and have been doing daily reconcilliations (validating all index updates and data files updates thru the use of local mirrored files. Still, no problems. Please keep in mind that our LISTS files, SYSTEMP files, ROLLOUT files, SORT paths and caching of multilayered transactions prior to update are all done on a local drive (we can't use TRANSACTION locking because we have too many dict items in several files and PROTECT.MFS blows out, so I run the trans locally so I can either commit or rollback.)
If there is some problem I'm missing I'd appreciate a note on it.
TIA,
Larry
</QUOTE>
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=== At 23 NOV 1998 12:07PM Eli Morse Revelation wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Status of Microsoft Windows NT running Service Pack 4:
After continued in-house testing of the impact of the NT Service Pack 4 to the Revelation network products, the following results have been concluded:
* Open Insight works when you have Service Pack 3 installed on both the workstation and the server, while running the Revelation NT Service.
* Open Insight works when you have Service Pack 4 installed on both the workstation and the server, while running the Revelation NT Service.
* Open Insight does not work if you have a mixed environment where Service Pack 3 is installed on one (workstation or server) and Service Pack 4 is installed on the other (workstation or server), while running the Revelation NT Service.
In the later scenario the NPP driver fails to establish the Name Pipe connection to the Revelation NT Service.
</QUOTE>
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=== At 23 NOV 1998 12:44PM Oystein Reigem wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Eli,
Many of our customers don't have much technical knowledge, and have no in-house technical staff, so they cannot always give us immediate and full details of their system and network setup when they report a problem.
So potentially it could be of help to us if we know what symptoms occurred in this mixed, problematic case.
Thanks,
- Oystein -
</QUOTE>
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=== At 03 DEC 1998 07:40PM Chris Cordera wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Is this an issue for AREV 2.12 using the NT LH Service with
NT 4 Servers and/or Workstations? I have 2 installations on NT 4.0 Servers coming up in the next 3 days…
</QUOTE>
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=== At 10 FEB 1999 08:21AM Sylvain Lemieux wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Any developments on this issue. We have to decide whether we will migrate to the OI version of an application and since SP4 is necessary to ensure Y2K compliancy we may be forced to abandon the application. Please let me know what (if any) schedule is proposed for ensuring that OI will be compatible with NT SP4.
Thank you.
</QUOTE>
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=== At 10 FEB 1999 06:23PM Carl Pates (Sprezzatura Ltd) wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Sylvain,
Have you checked the rest of this thread? I thought SP4 was Ok if both WS and Server are running the same service pack release?
Regards
Carl Pates
Sprezzatura Ltd
</QUOTE>
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=== At 06 APR 1999 01:45PM John Bouley wrote: ===
<QUOTE>Hello,
We just sold a customer 5 new NT workstations for their NT 4.0 network. Their server is at Service Pack 4 and the existing workstations are at Service Pack 3. Fortunately, they were not having any problems.
The new workstations have Service Pack 4 "pre-installed" by the distributor. At lease two new workstations are experiencing lockup problems. I personally saw one of the stations that was locked up. The system was in Advanced Revelation and the background indexing message was flashing on and off as if it was updating indexes. Nothing out of the ordinary until I tried to interrupt it. Not even Cntrl-Alt-Delete would produce any response!
The system is using the NT Service.
Does anyone have ideas as to what is causing problems the new systems.
I know that RTI does not reccommend installing SP4 but it was unavoidable when it comes "pre-installed". Besides it was the only way to insure Y2K compatability.
Thank You.
</QUOTE>
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