You know and I know that Windows 98 has memory issues.

Trouble is that getting a client to beleive it is another matter.

Our app moans about not enough memory when opening up several windows.

I can replicate, but I can get more that a user and I only have 94Mb and some users have 256Mb and get less than me.

What can I do to get OI to take up less memory.

NOTE: no solution is NOT AN OPTION in this case, with this client.

I NEED to do something, and a rewrite to remove controls is also not an option, as is getting the user to put in more memory.

Same old comments from the user when they say other applications do not do this, but I too can open Word, Excel, Access, Outlook, Explorer… all with sub-dialogs, but when OI apps have more than about 4 screens, thats it.

Help needed ASAP.

The latest OI 4.1.x should fix this problem as Pat recently explained, the rewrite means that even on Win98 machines you should be able to open a LOT more forms…

Revelation Software EMEA Support

That means and upgrade from OI16 to OI32.

Not a simple and easy task when you have 100's of users, an application with internal 16bit DLLs, cost implications to users etc, and not a lot of time.

The problem with Windows, in general, is that YOU have no control over what else is sucking up resources on the Windows desktop. Sometimes it's not just memory, but resources too. The resource stack in Win9x is only 64K and when that's used up, no amount of additional memory will fix the problem. In fact, if you install more than 256MB of memory in Win9x, it will actually slow down. Win NT, 2K, etc. don't have this problem and resource management is much better there, too.

As others have pointed out, 32-bit OI solves a lot of these problems, except for some Win 98/95 issues, which are probably un-solvable. I realize that you have a heavy investment in 16-bit DLL's, but, sorry to say, that's the price you (and your/my) users may have to pay.

About the only thing you might do, is to check Windows resource utilization within your app and notify the user when they get too low because loss of data is also NOT AN ALTERNATIVE if the app is mission-ctitical.

Don Miller

C3 Inc.

Then regretfully there is no simple fix. What else is the user running? Some early Delphi apps grabbed virtually all of the 64K heap meaning that OI wouldn't even run alongside them. We could make recommendations on how you could help the situation from your end but this will still involve quite a lot of programming, shuffling of windows in and out of memory etc.

Does the client have this problem if yours is the only app running? Could you install a resource meter on your MDI frame and monitor where the resource is going?

Revelation Software EMEA Support

Yes, same problem if our app is the only app running, excluding of course the basic MS stuff that starts up normally.

Resoure meter, from what I recall when I ran it last was pushing very high on the memory, but only occasional peaks on the processor.

This 64k heap you mention is interesting.

Is there some reserved space for 16bit apps regardless of the actual RAM in place.

If so, then this would account for the reasons why some users with twice the memory to my laptop can run less OI windows.

Maybe there is some room for investigation here, but I would like to know more about this, and if possible any places I can look for it on the Internet.

To do this, some clarification on the real name for it would help me greatly.

Thanks for your fine and prompt assistance.

Colin

Basically there is a 64K heap space that Windows uses for visual components. In earlier versions of OI every property took a value in here thus using up the heap at a rate of knots. In the newer stuff Pat maintains all of these properties locally thus freeing up a pile of heap and allowing theoretically infinite amounts of Windows under 98.

Bob Watson posted a useful article on this at http://www.revelation.com/__8525656100571cbb.nsf/0/d47218adc7edcb45852567ef00481d8d?OpenDocument.

Whilst we have an obvious vested interest in your moving to OI32 we also believe it is the easiest route for you as well. Why not speak to Martyn about getting some assistance on the 16 bit DLL ports as part of an upgrade package.

Revelation Software EMEA Support

Sorry, but cannot access this link, did not work for some reason.

Asked for password again, and then would not let me near it.

Could you please advise a keyword to search for, or some other mechanism, or Email me perhaps at rulec@cssp.co.uk

Thanks

emailed…

Revelation Software EMEA Support

Colin,

Sorry, but cannot access this link, did not work for some reason

It's on Works - that's why it didn't work.

I'll take my chances and copy it here. Most of it is © somebody else anyway.

Subject: Re: Resources getting too low - repost for RTI

Author: Bob Watson

Category:

Date: 09/17/99

---

Don

There is nothing you can do about the lack of User and GDI resources available to 16 bit applications running in Win 9x. My recommendation is to move to NT workstation. We did and the problem was eliminated.

Bob Watson

From Norton Utilities

In order to run applications, Windows requires free USER memory resources, GDI resources, and (for Windows 3.x applications) selectors. When these resources are exhausted, additional applications cannot be opened, and you receive out-of-memory errors. When USER resources are low, you should close any unnecessary applications to free up some memory.

Compared to Windows 3.x, later versions of Windows increase the availability of USER resources, in part by providing some of those resources through new, 32-bit code. However, many USER resources continue to be provided through the older, 16-bit code. Although this older code ensures compatibility for applications designed to run under Windows 3.x, it also retains a number of the limitations of the older operating system. Because every window and dialog box that gets displayed requires USER resources, they are still somewhat limited, especially if you run many 16-bit applications.

GDI resources

Graphics Device Interface (GDI) resources. In order to run applications, Windows requires free GDI and USER resources. 16-bit applications also require free memory "selectors." Low levels of any of these resources can prevent you from running programs, and will cause Windows out-of-memory errors.

USER resources

For Windows 9x: Space reserved in RAM for the Windows User module, which deals with window management issues. The User module is responsible for the creation and manipulation of windows, dialog boxes, buttons, and other graphical user interface components. Windows includes three main subsystems: the kernel, graphics device interface, and User resources.

Copyright © 1994-1997 Symantec Corp.

- Oystein -

Brilliant.

I did more searching and found this link.

http://tweakhomepc.virtualave.net/memory/resources.html

I am more more enlightened now, and will endeavour to see what can be done.

Colin,

I realize your difficulties for upgrading to OI32 but FYI we have been testing the claim that 4.1.x removes the problems of resource hogging in OI apps (especially with Win98 machines).

We are very excited to say that this works wonderfully. We were able to open up 10 windows with ~100 controls each. We still had 43% resources available. Previously, the maximum we could open up would have been 3-4 screens before getting the out of memory message. Even then, the system would have acted wobbly.

We've been stressing that our clients move to Win2000/XP (which is still a *good* idea) but now we don't have to push it because of resource limitations.

Well done Revelation!

dbakke@srpcs.com

SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.

View this thread on the forum...