I posted 'user license problem' few month back (in march) but got no answer as well. Hopefully this time the Revelation guys will answer me.So here goes :

"

Dont know if this has been ask before. I have created 2 application or account for a user. Now the user tell me he had to open them at the same time, so the problem is he has only license of 1 user so must logout the first application then only can log into the next.Any way out of this without needing to buy multiuser lanpack? or me combining the 2 application to 1? Any logto available like n arev? Any help will be very much appreciated.

"

The user feels he do not need to buy multiuser since he is the only user and besides the popular software licencing like Microsoft is per cpu and not applicaton/account.Any thought on this subject is much appreciated.

Thanks.

William,

The Runtime License provides one end user use of an OpenInsight application. If it is necessary for more than one user to access an application or for one user to access a separate application then an SDP is required.

Runtime SDPs are available in increments of 1,3,5,10,50 and 250 users.

Sean FitzSimons

Revelation Software

But this is one of the problems with the licensing .. it is only 1 user.

DSig

So logto in Arev does the same as you need to do now in OI. Log out of one account - log into another. Logto does what is says on the tin - it does not have 2 accounts / applications open.

Hans.

How are things in sunny Spain?

From the sound of it William wants to have application A open in OI and also open application B. Both running of the same engine.

As I understand it you get unlimited single user runtimes. SO I might send out app a as a runtime (single user) and app b. The user *should be able to* open either app OR both.

This means 1 user to 1 application only at one time? And not 1 user to 1 cpu like microsoft office.For office, user can open 2 or more excell or words documents at one time.Thats what my user is complaning to me.He dont have to buy multiple licenses.

OI allows u to create multiple application and even inheret from prevoius applications but u cannot open then on the same machine by the same person?

U got that right. Thanks.

Yes logto also closes one app and then open another but its executed on one go.So that came into my mind as an alternative but unfortunately oi cannot do this but the best is to be able to one 2 or more allication.The licensing do not allow this.The user do want to manually close one application and open another.This is deem as wasting time for the user. This user actually wants to open the 2 application so he can move back and forth without wasting time. So its not really using the system concurrently cause he got one keybord, two hands and 1 brain only :) This makes it not justifiable to purchase another user license.

Good idea. Thanks :)

Ohh…. what about locking? the 2 applications i written one of them uses a few data files from the other applications. Will there be any locking problem?

At the risk of getting into lots of hot water, I am going to speak to this. At one time, there was AREV for OS/2. Unlike the DOS product, AREV for OS/2 allowed as many sessions as you liked on one machine. Absolutely beautiful, right? One head, two hands, one CPU, as William says.

Then came Citrix Multiuser. One OS/2 machine could run as many users as you wanted, and they could ALL open as many sessions of AREV as they wanted – still one CPU, right? No longer one head, two hands. Right now, my machine info says I am running on VirtualXP, which is running out of my Linux system with LTSP, with 5 terminals attached. All of them can run OI. (But not at the same time – we are three-user licensed!)

I think William's and DSig's idea of running multiple accounts is a good idea. However, executing the engine twice with two runtimes is a bad idea, because of licensing issues. Instead, it would be very nice if a user could open two MDI frames, to two accounts, in the same engine execution. But how can this work with file attaches, .DBT images, and the like, which (long ago) was designed for single account execution?

I believe multi-account execution is a technology problem, NOT a licensing issue. I think the AREV for OS/2 was multi-threaded, and OI for Windows is not. William's comment about opening two Excel documents applies to context switching, not multi-threading, as the user can edit only one document at a time. OI for Windows could emulate the multi-MDI, multi-account single user concept IF there were a fast context switching mechanism for changing accounts, which there is not. (I personally want to go back to how AREV for OS/2 worked, but I KNOW that won't happen.)

Would anyone have suggestions about how fast context switching of accounts could be designed for OI? I agree with William that this would be within product licensing, if it were possible.

Gerald

In OI you can open dozens of tables or many forms at one time. Each form or table does not require a user license. Compare apples to apples. Can you run several copies of Excel on one CPU? No.

William,

First, I am not making a comment about licensing or the proper interpretation of it. That remains exclusively the domain of Revelation.

Second, I agree with Warren that your analogy does not compare apples to apples. Microsoft Office is a suite of applications. Each EXE resides (normally) in different folders. Thus, in order to compare yourself to Office you would need to do what DSig suggests and deploy separate runtime applications into different folders.

Also, as Warren said, Word and Excel are not being launched multiple times. Rather, they are opening multiple documents. In my opinion, this is analogous to an OpenInsight application opening up multiple forms (which could be the same form or a different form).

I know separate applications in different folders will work. However, they cannot share the same database tables.

A different approach would be to simulate a split environment. This means copying your EXE and DLL files into a separate (usually sub) folder and changing your shortcut's Target path accordingly. For the second application just create another sub-folder with all the same DLL and EXE files except use an OENGINE.dll with a different serial number. This means, of course, that YOU will have to purchase another WORKS subscription so you can deploy a new OENGINE.dll.

[email protected]

SRP Computer Solutions, Inc.

]]A different approach would be to simulate a split environment. This means copying your EXE and DLL files into a separate (usually sub) folder and changing your shortcut's Target path accordingly. For the second application just create another sub-folder with all the same DLL and EXE files except use an OENGINE.dll with a different serial number. This means, of course, that YOU will have to purchase another WORKS subscription so you can deploy a new OENGINE.dll.

The problem with this is ..

Let's say SRP has written 2 world best applications .. no it could happen. You package the single user using your runtime as you are licensed to do.

Joe Business buys both of your apps because .. well he wants the worlds best apps. He is running one a then gets a phone call from a guy who wants a quick price check on a part that they are willing to buy .. a bazillion of them .. oh my .. things start puckering .. Joe starts shaking and dclicks his icon .. POW . too many users .. "Wait .." joe says " .. I have to close something to look that up " .. CLICK goes the phone.

Sweet ..

And of course "I am not making a comment about licensing or the proper interpretation of it. That remains exclusively the domain of Revelation .. " more of a history lesson and the thinking inside of RTI as OI was being readied ..

]] Also, as Warren said, Word and Excel are not being launched multiple times. «

Well they certainly can be run multiple times.

I just opened two copies of Excel 2007 (2 copies EXCEL.EXE exist in Windows Task Manager process list). Excel does allow more than one instance of Excel to be launched. Furthermore as long as I have Excel installed I could even embed Excel in a third party application, for yet another copy running.

Like you say, it is sunny and nice and hot (108F) but am in cooler NY at the moment.

William is correct in thinking that the locking is a problem there. Can only use tables exclusively to the runtime engine you are opening.

Except for the OS2 product this has been something all of us had to live with, e.g. buy a bump-disk (now that shows my age!) to achieve what he is trying to do.

Hans.

]Except for the OS2 product this has been something all of us had to live with, e.g. buy a bump-disk (now that shows my age!) to achieve what he is trying to do.

Yes, but you could always LOGTO another account. OI doesn't really give you that ability

]Yes, but you could always LOGTO another account. OI doesn't really give you that ability

Correct, and I can not see why this should not be on the next versions "Wish-List". Switching accounts through the menu system already works pretty quick - so could that not be made available in RBasic??

Maybe I'm missing something here… In AREV you could Logto another account. It would close the current account and open another. In OI you create two shortcuts. When you want to open the second you first close the one you are in. The only difference being that there is no OI supplied way to switch applications. I would say for the "convenience" of being abe to open a second application without closing the first is worth the price of a 1 user bump? You tell the customer that this is how it works and the solution is y. If they don't want to pay for y then that is their decision.

Just my two cents.

John

<The only difference being that there is no OI supplied way to switch applications.

Now that is exactly the problem. It just takes too much time closing one app and opening another. Users are not willing to wait.

Well said Gerald. Thanks.

Hope Revelation guys can find a way to improve oi from single account execution to multi account execution for single user with fast context switching. Then we need to look into multithreading. Please improve oi with these technologies so we can all be competetive with u know who(the 'M' guys). Hope these will be in the wish list and can materialise as soon as possible.

User will not accept it. Thats the problem instead they will say we are outdated product and they will compare us with microsoft product especially the .net

We must improve OI. Since its been like that for so long, i feel its about time to have some changes for the better. Should work toward the OS2. 'wink' 'wink'

Really need this features. Please, please put it in the next release.

yes please.

Unfortunately, my user here dont see it that way. Cause if i say that he will take his business elsewhere.Then i will not get paid by my boss and my children will go hungry. Just my 2 cents also.

Exactly. Users want instance respond these days.

William,

The technology for fast context switching of OI application accounts is probably a long way off. However, if your two "applications" were redefined to be two "modules" of one application, then I know exactly how to do this. At the risk of offending even more people, I will mention that this is basically a feature of my free, open-source Atlas Framework. So, write to me off-board: [email protected] and I will try to help.

Gerald

Perhaps if instead of comparing to Word, you used Access as an analogy, you might get somewhere … but I doubt it.

Terminal Server makes it essentially impossible to tell if the multiple copies running are one user or many (could be worse – AREV would let you do it with a single user license, it would just then corrupt the files).

Of course, all this complaining has no doubt wasted a lot more of your billable time than it is probably worth – you could have just purchased a single user bump and added to the user's system for less cost that your time was worth. And if this dual app problem is likely to be something that happens a lot, just remember to add that small cost into your estimates from now on (which takes care of the license and locking issues).

Karen,

I don't think William's problem is a license issue. The customer told him he didn't want to open two program icons. Instead, he wanted to open the frames of the two applications within ONE program – just as Word and Excel can do. You and I know that Word is just doing context switching between the windows as focus changes. The user, however, thinks he is doing two things at once. William will never convince him otherwise.

Adding another license is not going to give the customer what he expects to see – an integrated program doing "two things at once," until both application frames are open in the same program copy. I sympathize with the dilemma of having a customer who will not be satisfied with the obviously correct solution.

It really looked as though the customer wanted to open up both applications, just as word opens up two docs (they would even then behave the same - both have icons on the bar at bottom, alt-tab switches context, etc).

]

Me too. I understand why RTI chose their licensing rules, but there are equally valid reasons they should have gone a slightly different way (of course, M$ is much bigger and can live without the revenue for those who don't properly license the extra users). The licensing (and this crazy customer) among the reasons that the sub-application route doesn't work so well. I suspect the same customer would not be happy if it were all one app, with two menu choices either (otherwise, why not add the extra functions as a menu choice to the first app?).

Funny u ask me to use Access as an analogy. What a coincidence that I have worked on applications done in access as well as others development tools. :)

In MS access there is a version called the developer version which allows u to develop as many apps as u like and u can deploy just one runtime(royalty free) with all those apps. Guess what, i can open them concurrently on 1 cpu and its not just context switching i think its multithreading cause i can update something on one and preview others on the other and ohhh… the most important thing is if i share the the same data database the locking works. The runtime is royalty free but unlike OI its per user/cpu and not per application. Let me ask u this simple question, why would OI allows u to create other applications when u cannot open them together.Why not just 1 application.New developers like me would not be cought in this situation.I think these are from the dos/arev legacy which should be improved on with the windows being aroung for so long already and the .net somemore.Windows allows u freedom to open multiple apps and move among them. Only DOS runs one apps at a time. I have used OI for … comming to 2 years now and i like it cause even with these setbacks it still has a lot of good in it.I hope Revelation guys will really improve it so it can be much more competetive. The UI interface also needs lots of improvements. The Office 2007, where Access 2007 lies now has someting call the ribbon which is highly configurable and very impressive than OI ribbon. For me, if something needs fixing i will fix it asap cause we have to see furter, long term planning than short term.No doubt, for short term it look like my time wasted will be more expensive but in long terms i will gain more. Cause i am sure i will develop more than just 2 application in the long run. Say maybe 10 apps.. now the cost will be more than the time i spent now.Right? Please think of the possibilities we can acheive with OI.Think what we all can acheive with this improvement. Just my 2 cents.

]

There is no extra user in this case, just 1 guy with 1 head, 2 hands and 1 cpu like i mention before.:) Asking users to buy extra users when there is only one user is just not correct to me. If its network and got multiple user, of course the users have to buy the extra users license.

In theory you should be able to do this by using the /SN command switch. I've just tried it with a single user OI and two shortcuts

d:\oi\OINSIGHT.exe /sn=amca /ap=sysprog /un=sysprog /dv=0

d:\oi\OINSIGHT.exe /sn=amca /ap=examples /un=examples /dv=0

and it launched the Examples App and the Sysprog app without any complaints about single user license count being exceeded. This is because you are only using one engine - the "Server Name" referenced by AMcA.

The Sprezzatura Group

World leaders in all things RevSoft

You have to look at OI and ARev's roots. ARev and OI are based on Pick systems which were developed for minicomputers. The licensing model isin part based on the mini/mainframe timesharing model. Indeed wasn't the company that bought out Cosmos and became Revelation Technologies named Micro Mainframes or something like that?

Is this licensing model outdated in the PC world? Yes and no. If you've been following the trends with Microsoft's server and corporate licensing they are moving more and more towards the mini/mainframe licensing model.

pre.code {

 background-color: #E5E5E5;

 border: 1px solid #000000;

 width: 640px;

 padding: 5px;

 font-family: courier, verdana, arial, serif;

 margin: 0px 10px auto;

}

William,

You can Implement Andrew's sugestion from a menu item too.

Use the program below from a menu item on your main window.

It assumes that no password is needed

- Bob

Function logto_example(void)
/*

**   Simulate Logto
**   Create a popup called SYSAPPS
**   Put this window on an event on the main window of your application  


**  16-Jul-2007   rjc   Created
**/


Declare function shellExecute, GetUserName, Get_Property

$insert popup_equates
Equ null$ to \00\
equ maximized$ to 3


* What do I want to Open?
* Assume blank password

buffer=space(50)
ret=GetUserName(buffer, len(buffer))
username= buffer1,null$

* Use a custom routine here
Nextapp  =popup(@window, '','SYSAPPS')
if nextapp else
   return ''
end

Servername=Get_Property('SYSTEM', 'SERVERNAME')

* Open it
Cmd      =oinsight' : null$
Operation=Open':null$
Params   =/SN=: servername |
          :' /AP=:nextapp   |
          :' /UN=: username |          
          : null$

path     =drive():null$
showcmd  =maximized$

x=ShellExecute(0,operation, cmd, params, path, showCmd)

call Send_Event(@window, 'CLOSE') 

return ''

Great ideas from Sprezzatura and BobC ..

I am on the road right now and can't try this but a question comes to mind. Will there be any collision between commons etc?

I will have to try this when I get back in the office

Thanks

Well as there is one engine there is only one set of common so this MIGHT create some problems. Worth testing thoroughly we think. In fact check

this item from February 1999 when we first mentioned this sort of thing.

The Sprezzatura Group

World leaders in all things RevSoft

But there is no way to tell that it is only one user from the software - M$ lets you break the rules and run without licenses, OI does not. The side effect is lower revenue for M$ and annoyed developers for OI.

Let me stress this point first. My single user is not breaking any rules and nither is M$. They intepret their license pre cpu but revelation intepret it per aplication eventhough they call it a single user license. Which is where all these confusion came about. Maybe it should be called an application license instead. I am sure there are may ways to determine the no of user using the application. Hmmmm….. for example every time i run an application i have to provide an application\account, a username as well as a password if set.Whats the username for, may i ask? Why cant u use both for the authentication? Same user can only open any of the available application only once but he can open other application at the same time as long as its not the opened application, for single user license.Was that so difficult to come out with.It just struck me just now. Anyway…

It seems to me its more of an technology issue with the oiengine cause its from the old arev days where u can only run one application at a time. Windows allows multithreading and more freedom.I am sure if multithreading is incorporated into the oiengine, revelation sure will have ways to determine the no of user.Use my idea mention above. Please dont use the losing revenue as an excuse.Times are changing expecially the IT. We need this technology to keep on top if not we will lose our customer in the long run.Please consider this Revelation people. Put it in the next wish list.Its about time.

Ohh… while we are at it, please put multitreading technology into basic+. Just imagine creating a multitreaded applications.Skys the limit for us OI developer.I am sure oi developer will be happy and not anoyed. Java, .net all has it. Lets upgrade people.

Thanks.

This sound very promissing. Will try it out…but what is amca???

Server name? This is a stand alone pc. Where can i find this servername. Help please. :) Oh. God please make this work.

Thank you Bob. Will try this out.

1999. Wow!!! U guys got the solution all the time. I really love this comunity. u guys are the best. :)

Ohh…. by the way whats are commons ???

Tried it! But looks like not stable. I can open 2 applications with the shortcut setting as u mention(yes!!!!) but when i switch between apps there is an error sound(no !!!!) and i can only close off one of the app. The second app cannot close. have to endtask. I am using 2 apps instead of the sysprog. Also not very sure of the servername but used bob way of getting the servername from my developer. same for runtime right? Did i get the wrong servername?

Hi William,

First, I acknowledge your frustration with our licensing model. The licensing model is dated, and work best in a "one machine, one task" environment. Our goal is to make the software worth the cost. In the past few years we have worked to improve the value of the software rather than reduce the cost. We have been looking less at Microsoft and more at Linux for a good model to replace our current one. We have not seen any winners. Linux software vendors are mostly starving. Whatever we choose has to carry us for another 20 years, be fair to buyer and seller, be enforcable, and practical. Your postings and the excellent responses from others have caused much internal discussion, but we do not plan any immediate changes.

Second,

The servername is just a string that OpenInsight can use to find the OpenEngine. Run OpenInsight, Click on the OpenEngine, Click on EngineInfo. If you look at the Engine properties, you will see the server name in the bottom right hand of the window.

Third,

The program I posted switches which application the current engine is using. In MS Access it is the same as closing the first MDB and starting a second. It will work if you want to run one OpenInsight and switch between applications.

If you are trying to keep both applications open at the same time and switch between them, my technique will be unstable. Technically, you could use an activated event on the main window to flash an external connection back to the named engine. However I expect that you will have instability at some point.

Fourth,

Can you make two single user runtimes? You have a works license, so you should be able to do that. Then ( if serial nrs are different ) you can do what you want.

Hope this helps,

Bob

I am not sure I understand this argument. Are you saying that there is no way to know *who* (what machine) is connecting at the time? I find that hard to believe.

I know there are complexities like citrix or oecgi or .. but like anything else there are answers.

Thanks for that .. not bad for bunch of English Bad Boys

]

There definitely are – one is counting how many times the EXE or DLL starts (which is what OI is more or less doing). Others include those annoying dongles (which also don't work well on multi-user OS's, like TS/Citrix).

]

And at at least one customer site (and I'm sure many more), I've discovered over time that every single person logs in with one user name and password, bypassing pretty much all the security levels and accountability we have built into our system.

No on said your customer is doing anything "wrong" (or that I like how RTI set up these licenses – we can at least, blame it all on Jim). But that is how they set up the license and how we have to distribute the apps. I also agree that saying "you agreed to this up front" is a little harsh on their end (esp. since as a LONG time developer, there are many restrictions in OI that I did NOT agree to up front, as they were not restrictions in AREV runtimes and are NOT really necessary to have in a runtime environment in order to restrict true development - with the new dev/runtime license, they finally let you bypass them and add on full development (which our clients don't need), but at an annual cost).

There is no way to tell it is the "one user, one brain", as wanted by the original poster. From inside OI, when I look at locking on a terminal server, all the machine names post as "TERM1" (the server name) with no session info (that can be extracted, I know, I'm just looking at how the app sees things with no changes). In Terminal Server, even if I did know this, in order to run the two apps side by side, for most sites this would need two sessions anyway (most people don't give full desktops to clients, although some do).

If instead, I try to use login names (in windows or OI), I just invite the users to all use the same one (which we find happens anyway, in offices with no awareness of security), plus the OI usernames are likely to be different in order to trigger the two apps to run.

Looking at locks or sessions or executions on a local system doesn't work well, since multiple executions on a desktop look about like multiple executions on terminal server.

Of course, AREV had similar (and worse) issues with running multiple copies on a single machine (no locking, for example, even if set up for networking on some configurations). The "blame" can go to the DOS environment it was developed in, but it carried over into the Windows world for years. Of course, since you had no locking and did this at your own peril, I don't think anyone cared if you ran multiple single-user copies of AREV on a machine (and you had better run a networked one if using PC-MOS or any of the later multi-user OS's out there). I suspect the user in question, though, would be just as (if not more so) annoyed if OI let him do this with the same consequences as occurred when doing it in AREV.

Using two serial numbers or a two-user license is an obvious (and easy) solution for the problem. It may not be the one he (or even I) prefer, but it works and doesn't break the system. Personally, I'd probably develop all the guy's apps as modules in one application and just put the bits across a top menu as he adds to it, so he can open as many windows/modules/apps as you develop for him over time. But if these were truly standalone, marketable programs, that would not be an ideal solution. Of course, in that case, selling them with distinct serial numbers would be in my best interest as well….

Confirm. it can open 2 apps but cannot close one of them.

Thanks.

Actually tried your program but it does not work.

1)getusername got compile error. is it your own program?

2)i bypass it by setting my own user name but got this message instead "another process has exclusive access to the engine or debugger has suspended engine execution.the current process cannot continue." if i click ok, it will go to my other application but unfortunately when i close the application the engine is still open and would not clode got to endtask.

Its not stable. Please advise?

Tried it but not stable . please refer to the other post.Please advise.

Did it work on our side? Mine did not. Problem closing the other application. let me know.Thanks

What do u mean by database? application name? There is no switches for database? Anyway tried it and it did ot work? Maybe i did something wrong.Please advise.

Hi Bob, really appreciate u helping out. I tried your forth option of having 2 runtime but unfortunately my 2 application have some setfile to each other data file and the result is that once one runtime open and atach these files the second runtime app will not be able to setfile to these files. My attach program gives me error message saying error and connot attach/setfile.Seems like OI has another hidden control that prevents u from attaching/setfile to the same file using 2 runtime. Please advise.

Counting how many times an exe or dll starts works for old dos single apps at a time environment.For windows as well as linux its multitasking and multithreading. More freedom, i can move between apps as well as between entry fields unlike the dos days, i must go through every field on top to reach the last one unless i put some function keys programming to move it to the fields.those were the days.But we need to improve.times are changing.technology have advanced.Hope u guys can understand.

]

This i also face before many many times.Users like to be anonymous and a lot will always forget their password.But i feel this is an education for the user.I educate my user the importance of the user name for identification. So far most of them agree.In fact i wrote a login module for all my apps that goes not only by username but groups as well where i allow the admin user to set rights for them. Unfortunately OI do not provide this.This should be standard in OI for deployment as well where the user actually uses the OI user name instead of me having to write one myself. Sorry to say this but if OI can allow the same user to access as many times as the no of sdp applied why not the other way around. Let the oiengine run multiple apps but control from the user and apps entry. By allowing same user to access multiple times actually makes the user login unnecessary. Might as well take it out then.Same with creating applications.Why not just one big application then and why have inheritance from application.The directions seems chaotic to me.Sorry if i sounded harsh. Blame on Jim ?

]

Thank you for understanding the single user delima.The fact is the user feels he do not have to pay for another license to use since he is just one person.This is difficult to educate, believe me i tried.User login they can still accept but this is hard for the user to swallow. The dev/runtime license u mention above bypass these? But with a yearly subscription and the user will never develop anything cause his a non-programming guy. I dont think he will buy it.From where i come from user like to own their software and not lease.This model is not working, please look into fixing it.With M$ giving express version free, there is a lot of developers out there developing better and cheaper application.How do OI developer compete then? Whats the future? U know about the express right? Sql express, visual studio express and blah …. Oh yeah they also have a framework to help u develop faster.Does OI have one.They can develop multi tier apps, can OI do it? They got web services, what about OI? Just to be fair, oi bounded form/templates out perform M$ tools.The edit table is better than the subform in usage but not the looks.sorry.OI gives the programmer much more control compared to Access. cause sometime access does something inside which i do not know what and drag down my apps performance.Too much unnecessary checking i think.So i really like OI besides i have very fond memories from AREV.So i hope OI can survive for the next 20 years or so.I understand M$ is big enough to give free things cause they earn from their server licensing and revelation do not but OI better be prepared. Looks sad to me.How to compete? :(

One more issue, just my 2 cents. How may new programmer do u all know that uses OI.Does anybody know?How many new programmer this year for example? Does the graph goes up or down?Look at the colleges they teach what? VB.net.So OI needs to improve to attract these people. I love what u guys did with linux, java and oecgi2 and staying current but there are much more needed.Hope u guys can understand.

]

I tried it did not work cause OI do not allow me to attach/setfile to files already attach/setfile.Refer to my other post.

]

Thats what i fear. All the create application and login with user name are just for show.All in one big application.The world changes, its the internet era.No bounderies, go global.Apps need to integrate with each other.

]

I dont know what to say.

Bob,

Does the "do what you want" with two separate single-user runtimes include record locking in shared data tables?

Bob,

You say "Linux software vendors are mostly starving," but I have been starving as a Windows developer. At least Linux providers are not falsely competing against their vertical market developers, as M$ does. But if you need input about how to make money in the Linux market, let me know outside of this forum.

Gerald

But if you need input about how to make money in the Linux market, let me know outside of this forum.

Gerald, I'd love to discuss the topic with you.

We head to LinuxWorld soon, I would like to be knowledgable at that show, and to be able to offer practical advice to our own community.

I'll follow up offline.

- Bob

I can't fix your problem, I'm not RTI, just another developer. At this point you have four options:

1) buy another runtime license to bump him up to two users

2) figure out how to get two runtime serial numbers. This will probably mean you need a second Works license.

3) Have him log out of one app and into the other when needed

4) Rewrite your app so it is all in one application.

As RTI has responded, they may change someday … but as they said, most of those linux guys on the trust model of licensing aren't staying in business long. Personally, I think their old licensing was more than fair and worked for all, but the Aquavelva man was in charge when OI was born - the licensing isn't the worst of what is still a legacy of this timeperiod.

]

I tried it did not work cause OI do not allow me to attach/setfile to files already attach/setfile.Refer to my other post.]]

Since you don't have two serial numbers to try, I'm not sure your other post is relevant.

I have two serial numbers logged into the same app and do setfiles and attaches all the time.

It works here, at least in all testing I've done…

Bob do i need another 'serial nrs' in order to successfully run the program? This solution is using one runtime only right? It should work on my site but i am having problem.Please refer to my other post with the error message i got. What are the things or components do i need to run it? Maybe i setup something wrongly.Please advise Bob.I need help here.

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I have works license since i am in this works forum and not the public one.I did made 2 runtime and got probelm as stated in my other post. I assume the 2 runtime created would have the same serial nrs right? or is there somewhere i can set it? Please explain how to set different serial nrs to runtime.

U tried with different serial no? If u try with the same serial no , do u get the same error i did. If so that means it confirms need different serial no for different runtime.hat about the third solution, the logto.Did u tried it? does this need different serial no?

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How to get 2 serial no? can u give me ?

Ouch… buy runtime license or another works license.Seems like the solution is to BUY,BUY,BUY. Hey that rhymes with the old nsync song.

:)

Ohh.. that sound bad.Danger,danger….

Please enlighten us new OI developer so we dont hit into these stone wall and get splat.

They would need two serial numbers.

email a copy of your development Oengine.dll to kevin @ revelation.com, he should be able to do that for you.

]]Your postings and the excellent responses from others have caused much internal discussion, but we do not plan any immediate changes.

Bravo on this. If there are to be any changes I hope they are thought through.

Last thing we would need is something that bit us all on the butt later on

thanks .. at least you guys are talking about it

The third solution using your logto example uses one runtime only right so i should not need another serial no. Please explain Bob.

The logto example i tried with one runtime oiengine will give me this error message."another process has exclusive access to the engine or debugger has suspended engine execution.the current process cannot continue." How come yours work and mine dont? Whats the difference of mine runtime generated and the ones u all got?

The logto uses the same engine, just switches which account that engine is using. It is a solution for the problem of wanting to move from appliation A to application B without restarting OpenInsight, However, if you intend to switch back and forth between two active sessions running different applications, you will have problems.

Perhaps if you put all of your code into 1 application, but have 2 main windows, then you can share an engine, the user will think that they are running two separate applications.

I understand that. Its like the Arev logto. I am exploring this as an alternative. But seriously i got the error message when running your code and there is one application running only.Meaning i got no OI application running, then i open app A and once in the main menu i click on the logto options i put in the main menu.It closes app A but give me the that message.Is it because of the setfiles? I have not tried with blank apps without attach and setfiles.Please help Bob. Did i set it up wrongly or its cause by the sharing of data files? Cause the arev logto can go to another apps even with setfiles to the same files.

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